SpiritualityJP Huh? Wait a minute... I have to digest that.

IATH Take your time... that's a big one for a lot of people. (On the tape only a few minutes passed during which Aaron floated in and out of various conversations and pleasantries at the table while I was submersed in a timeless limbo where thoughts and realizations rush at you from all sides ripping away old thoughts and beliefs faster than one realizes that they were even there to begin with. Something must have shown on my face for as I started to slowly become aware of the world around me again I realized that the table was completely silent.)

IATH Care to share with us what you've just gone through John?

JP {As I looked around the table everybody was staring at me and smiling.} Well... I don't know if I can... I'd like to... but first tell me how you did that to me.

IATH I have no special powers John. I didn't do a thing to you - It was all you. I'm sensitive to other people's energy... it's one of my gifts... I guess that you can say that I read energy as some people read facial expressions or body language. I can tell that you have been been evaluating and restructuring some basic things in your mind, and from what we were talking about before you started to do that, I can make some logical deductions as to what they were about - I think you were re-evaluating your beliefs about the whole psychic thing - but in reality, I have no idea what it was about or what you were going through... only that it was an important opening for you.

JP It sure seems that you had something to do with it... I mean we were engaged in a conversation when all of a sudden...

IATH I can assure that I did absolutely nothing to you John. whatever you did, you did all by yourself. It came from your Self to yourself. Our exchange of ideas may have been the impetus for it, but it was all you. That, by the way, is the power of Spiritual Endeavors... It's why I do it. An open honest sincere exchange of ideas can often be the impetus for the expansion of awareness and consciousness... and I enjoy presenting a stimulus that can spur others into expanding their consciousness. But that's another conversation. Care to share, now? We'd all love to hear.

JP Yeah... This may sound silly, but for years now I've always looked at psychics, and channelers, and such, as sources of... well, guidance. I've regarded them as special.... gifted... well, wise teachers. But now I understand that that is not necessarily the case... that they may be gifted in some ways that I am not.... that they may have some special ability that I don't... I mean, they may be able to psychically read my recent past or even my far past and somehow accurately access private stuff about me... and although this is a.... valid phenomena.... a real gift... well, that doesn't necessarily make them a fountain of wisdom that I should be basing my life on. I mean, If I'm looking to someone for guidance, I'm intelligent enough to realize that I should place great care into picking who that someone is... I mean if I'm not careful about whom I'm receiving guidance from, I can end up... well, all screwed up!

IATH Congratulations John! That's a big one for a lot of people. And that is one of the things I don't care for in the New Age Movement in general. There's an awful lot of people out there that think because they gifted in an ability or two, that that makes them fountains of wisdom and they hang out a sign or shingle and start giving away advice like there's no tomorrow. Far too many people get so lost in the abilities of others, that eventually they can't even find themselves any more.

JP Yes! And without realizing it, I have been slowly progressing down that road. I mean, when I first started visiting psychics and channelers, I looked at it as... a thing of interest... a curiosity... entertainment, I guess you could say. But there's a couple of very good ones... that were able to tell me things about my past... or my family... or even the near future... with astounding accuracy. At first my reaction was astonishment. Slowly that turned to a kind of respect. And somehow my respect for their ability evolved into thinking that their gift was... well divine guidance or something like that. But now I realize that that was not their gift at all. their gift was... well being psychic or being able to channel another entity. But even in the case of channelers, the entity being channeled isn't necessarily a wise teacher - they just have the gift of being able to talk through a living person... and that's not a criteria for wisdom. And to think that I'm taking the things that these people say as gospel - even to the point I place more importance on their thoughts than my own!

IATH Ahhh! And that's the real problem, John. No one... Absolutely NO ONE... needs a middleman in their relationship with the divine. I don't care if it's a priest, minister, rabbi, psychic, or 4.000 year old spirit speaking through a 20 year old body - a middleman has to propagate a non-existent and false separation from God - when in fact there is nothing further than the truth. That's as silly as a drop of ocean water thinking it needs a middleman to commune with the ocean.

JP Yes! And I feel.... well kind of violated... victimized... but it was also my own doing... or undoing. I went into it freely thinking that they would help strengthen my connection - when in fact they weakened it... or rather I weakened it by placing myself in a position where I thought I needed them to maintain and improve my connection.

IATH You know, John, the greatest most respected psychic... or channeler... in all recorded history was probably the Oracle Of Delphi in Ancient Greece. Most people can remember reading about her in passing during their high school history class. But as gifted as she was, and as many royalty as she received, she had a great disclaimer carved into the rock above the entrance of the cave that she lived in. At least, I think of it as a disclaimer - It could have very well been a reminder to herself. But anyway, above the entrance to her cave, she had carved into stone, "KNOW THY SELF". In a way, that was the answer to every question that was ever asked of her. It is the ultimate answer to every question. Unfortunately, I don't think many people understood back then. And many people still don't get it today. Each person is their own best consul. Each person already has every answer to every question - before they even ask it. There is no need to go outside yourself; only within.

That, by the way, is why the only spiritual things I conduct any more is Meditation and Conscious Creation classes. The way to know thy Self... and the way to manifest it.

JP Wow! Let's talk about the Conscious Creation classes. I've heard through the grapevine that there are some pretty amazing things happening there.

IATH Okay, If you like. There are some pretty amazing things happening there. An I am so happy that Bree asked me to help her with them.

JP Huh? You mean they weren't your idea?

IATH Oh no. Strictly Bree's idea... I'm honored she invited me to be a part of them. She's almost a walking encyclopedia of Seth's material - which the classes are based on. I've only read about 40 pages, or so, of one book: The Nature Of Personal Reality.

JP Then how can you co-teach the classes... and have such astounding results... if you're not even familiar with... what you're teaching?

IATH Hold on a minute, John. First, I don't like the word teaching. I assist Bree in conducting, guiding, directing, or showing the way. Secondly, I never said I was not familiar with the material. I said I only read a little of one of his books.

JP Well????

IATH Oh, I see what's got your gander up. Bree often reads passages from the books to me. And between that and the little I read of the Nature Of Personal Reality, I'm more than familiar with the concepts. That's what I consider to be the best thing about the Seth - I've spent a lifetime lifting up rocks and searching for the little specks of truth hiding below them... collecting them... analyzing them... refining them... figuring out how they fit together... and Bree spent her's reading Seth - And we both arrived at the same place with the same understandings.

She can quote the book and passage that opened her to a specific understanding or concept. I on the other hand can tell you a life experience, or the specific pile of sand I had to pick through in order to find the same golden nugget. And it is the exact same nugget.. same spiritual truth... same concept... same understanding.

One might say that if I discovered Seth's books when I was younger, I could have saved myself a lot of trouble. But on the other hand, I know myself pretty well... I have too strong of an independent streak in me - I guess that's why I never drew any of the books to me. You see, if I would have read the books, they would have been Seth's truths. But they're not. They're my truths. I worked for them... I found them... they're all mine. That Seth found them also, is great for him - and all his readers. But they have to be mine to mean something to me. Even in the classes, I will not say "Seth said this..." or "Seth said that...". I don't mind occasionally quoting a well turned sentence. But the only truths I can relay to the participants in the class are my truths. Anything less than that would be hypocrisy.

JP But you'll accept that hypocrisy from Bree?

IATH Not on your life! The amazing thing about Bree is her humility. She won't admit to it, but she's a very humble in many ways. Bree took Seth's words, digested them, and understands them as well as, if not better than most people that read Seth. She's truly lived them to the point where they have become her personal truths. I can see many instances where she has done this to the point where she can explain them with a deeper and better clarity than Seth. But she is in awe of how powerful, real and true some of the concepts are... and she is humbled by them to the point where she does not feel she can take credit for them - so she continually gives the credit to Seth. I do think that that is a fault of her's - it stops her from seeing what a truly amazing person she really is.

JP Wow.

IATH Oh! You don't know half of it - She's much more connected to spirit to me - She's a much better channeler than me: she lives her truths much more deeply than me, and in general, she's a real bona fide saint for putting up with me. Actually, if you're looking for an enlightening interview, you should be interviewing her, John, not me.

JP {I looked intently at him, he looked questioningly at Bree, I looked questioningly at Bree, she looked intently at him, and then at me and gently said, "I think not."}

{The tape ran out a few seconds after this point, but the conversation continued for hours. I dare not try to paraphrase any of the conversation, or write about it from memory, as I sure I could not do it justice. Thus, journalistically speaking, this interview has the official status of incomplete, or unfinished. And that dear readers is what a single conversation with I. Aaron Thunder Hart is like - incomplete and unfinished - It would take many many conversations to .feel completed and fulfilled... and then one would have to start all over again with.... A Conversation With Bree Thunder Hart.}

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